Solving For Joy

[00:00] Dr. Ardeshir Mehran:
I tell people we were born to be lionesses and lions in the Serengeti. But life told us a different story—and that’s the story we came to believe. Depression is our fight to fit into that false narrative, to stay inside the cage. The pain we feel is our soul fighting containment, reminding us that we were meant to roam free.

[00:11] Dr. Chrissie Ott:
And we believed it. I often think about depression—especially the kind that feels like nothing excites you anymore, that deep disengagement or dysthymia—as a signal. A signal calling us back to something that’s truly ours. In my framework, that signal points us toward joy.

[01:03] Dr. Chrissie Ott:
Joy is the convergence of meaning, alignment, and delight.

You’re listening to Solving for Joy. I’m your host, Dr. Chrissie Ott, a multi-boarded integrative physician and professional certified coach. This podcast explores what joy really means, how we find it, and the creative ways people are solving for it in their own lives. I’m so glad you’re here.

Introducing Dr. Ardeshir Mehran

[01:33] Dr. Chrissie Ott:
Hello and welcome. Today I’m joined by someone whose work invites a powerful rethinking of how we approach emotional suffering—not as something to manage or mask, but as a pathway back to meaning, connection, and a life that feels whole.

Dr. Ardeshir Mehran is a psychologist, researcher, bestselling author, and the creator of the Emotional Rights Framework. He works with high achievers—people who are often admired, even envied—yet carry a quiet ache that success alone cannot soothe.

His work is bold and deeply compassionate. He doesn’t view depression or anxiety as flaws to be fixed, but as signals reminding us that we’ve drifted from something essential. I resonate so much with this method. Thank you for being here, and welcome.

[02:35] Dr. Ardeshir Mehran:
Thank you, Chrissie. I’m grateful for this invitation and the chance to have a conversation I believe people need to hear. There is a better way toward well-being—toward healing.

The word healing comes from a Greek root meaning to be made whole. We’re all designed for wholeness—undivided and integrated. Yet our culture and language often lead us toward fragmentation, seeing ourselves in parts. Deep down, we long for a holistic, unified way of thinking, feeling, and being. I’m happy to explore what that means—personally and collectively.

[03:47] Dr. Chrissie Ott:
Yes—what it means on both an individual and a broader scale. Especially for people whose success creates the illusion of being immune to suffering, when in reality there’s still human pain to include in our experience.

[04:05] Dr. Ardeshir Mehran:
Absolutely.

[04:23] Dr. Chrissie Ott:
I’d love to start by learning a little about how you arrived here—and then have you walk us through the Emotional Rights Framework. What’s your backstory, Ardeshir? How did this work begin for you?

Dr. Mehran’s Story

[04:41] Dr. Ardeshir Mehran:
Thank you. Perhaps some of your listeners will relate.

I was a kid who never quite fit in—always “too much” of something. Too smart, too quiet, too bold, too shy. I didn’t know what “just right” meant. I was endlessly curious—asking my parents why people fight, why sadness hides behind their eyes. I quickly realized most people didn’t want to answer those questions.

Nature became my refuge. I’d disappear for hours into valleys and rivers near our home. Out there, even among scorpions and coyotes, there was order and respect—each creature honoring its space. I wondered: why aren’t humans like that?

That curiosity led me to study psychology at Columbia University. I wanted to understand why people behave the way they do. As a young clinician, I realized something startling—therapists were delivering therapy, but patients wanted healing. They didn’t want to “come back next week”; they wanted to feel whole.

So I began asking: what is illness, really? Why does it take so long to heal? Why do we tolerate being unwell for so long? Depression, anxiety, OCD—they become part of our identity. To me, that’s not okay. There’s another way to see it. That’s what the Emotional Rights Framework is all about.

[08:23] Dr. Chrissie Ott:
Thank you for that story. Tell us more about the framework itself.

[08:32] Dr. Ardeshir Mehran:
The Emotional Rights Framework emerged gradually over decades of listening. I noticed that when people talk about emotional struggle, they tell stories in patterns—different characters, same essence. Across cultures, ages, and genders, I kept hearing variations of one theme: somewhere along the way, we lost ourselves. We ended up in the wrong place, the wrong work, the wrong relationship—and deep down, we yearn to come home.

Over thirty years, I modeled those stories. What I discovered were seven archetypal emotional needs that stay with us from birth to our last breath. They’re cradle-to-grave needs that define our humanity.

1. I Belong

We all crave connection and belonging—the feeling that someone sees us, welcomes us, and holds space for who we truly are. This begins at birth. Many emotional wounds trace back to not being fully welcomed into the world. Even CEOs tell me they feel lonely in rooms full of admirers. Loneliness is just another word for depression and anxiety. What most of us long for is simply to be seen and held as we are.

2. I Am Boundless

In Western culture, we’re often disconnected from our bodies. We notice them only when they’re ill. Yet the body is the seat of emotion. “Mental illness” is a misnomer—it’s the whole person that feels, not just the mind. When our body’s wisdom is ignored, it speaks through pain: gut issues, headaches, tension, insomnia. Healing begins when we reunite with the body, when we listen to its messages instead of overriding them.

3. I Am Complete

Many of us move through life carrying shame, convinced we’re broken or unworthy. But neuroscience shows the “past” doesn’t live somewhere behind us—it lives in the body. Guilt says, “I did something wrong.” Shame says, “I am wrong.” Healing means reclaiming wholeness—remembering that everything we need is already within us.

4. I Matter

Invisibility wounds us. Whether in a corporate meeting or a family dynamic, being overlooked erodes our sense of significance. Research even shows that many violent outbursts stem from people who felt unseen. To matter is to know that our presence, voice, and perspective have weight—that someone cares what we think.

5. I Make

We’re meant to create and contribute. Everyone has something to make—whether you’re a physician, gardener, poet, or parent. The question is: are you doing what’s truly yours to do? Gallup reports that two-thirds of workers are disengaged. When we labor in lifeless work, we feel depressed and anxious because we’ve compromised our gifts.

6. I Am

This is the right to express yourself authentically—to say what you believe with energy and conviction. Many people tighten their throats when speaking truth; they’ve learned to mute themselves to fit in. That repression lives in the body as tension and fatigue. Wholeness means letting the voice flow freely again.

7. I Soar

Every human carries a story waiting to be told. Maya Angelou said, “There is no greater agony than bearing an untold story inside you.” When we don’t live or share that story, we stagnate. When we finally honor it, energy returns—depression transforms into focus, passion, and joy.

These seven needs—I belong, I am boundless, I am complete, I matter, I make, I am, I soar—form the Emotional Rights Framework. They’re not linear; they intertwine. When one or more are neglected, we drift into disconnection. When we restore them, we come home to ourselves.

[22:03] Dr. Chrissie Ott:
Thank you for laying that out so beautifully. To recap for listeners:
I belong. I am boundless. I am complete. I matter. I make. I am. I soar.

Those are such affirming lenses, Ardeshir.

[22:31] Dr. Ardeshir Mehran:
Absolutely.

[22:40] Dr. Chrissie Ott:
Hearing you describe them makes me reflect on my own experiences with dysthymia—that numbness that creeps in even after achieving everything on the checklist. Then shaking it all up and doing what felt more like me brought a kind of surprise joy.

A friend recently shared a Joseph Campbell quote I can’t stop thinking about: “If the path before you is clear, you’re probably on someone else’s path.”

[23:30] Dr. Ardeshir Mehran:
Beautiful. Yes.

[24:02] Dr. Chrissie Ott:
There are so many versions of depression, and I want to be careful not to oversimplify it. But I love how you interpret it—as a signal calling us back to something truly ours. That signal points us, in my framework, toward joy.

[24:23] Dr. Ardeshir Mehran:
Thank you. And yes—please, for anyone listening, don’t make changes to your treatment or medication without consulting your doctor. What we’re sharing here are emerging perspectives, not prescriptions.

Types of Depression

[24:48] Dr. Ardeshir Mehran:
My research—now almost fifteen years in—shows there’s no such thing as “pure” depression. It almost always appears with anxiety, sometimes ADHD tendencies. Yet modern psychiatry tends to treat these as separate issues. In truth, they feed each other.

We can think of three main forms:

Depression of Transition.
This follows loss—job loss, financial shock, death, or any sudden change. It brings numbness, anger, a sense of injustice. We retreat, sometimes self-medicate, until we slowly find footing again.

Depression of Disconnection.
This happens when one or more of our emotional rights are neglected. You can be married, surrounded by people, and still feel invisible. The restlessness and anger underneath are signals that something vital—connection, authenticity, belonging—is missing.

Depression of Surrender.
This is the deepest form, often masked by high function. People appear fine but feel dead inside. Robin Williams once said, “People don’t fake depression—they fake being okay.” That façade hides hopelessness. At this stage, connection saves lives—someone simply being with you, listening without advice, saying, “You matter. You’re not alone.”

Healing must address both anxiety and depression together. One cannot shift while the other is ignored.

The Five-Session Process

[33:23] Dr. Chrissie Ott:
You often say that in just five sessions people begin to feel more like themselves. What happens in that short time that makes transformation possible?

[33:56] Dr. Ardeshir Mehran:
When people call me, they’ve often read countless books, tried therapy, medication—and still say, “I don’t make sense to myself anymore.” My work reframes depression not as something to fix but as something to understand: Where did you drift off-track? What’s missing from your emotional ecosystem?

In the first session, we use somatic practices—drawing from Peter Levine and Bessel van der Kolk—to calm the nervous system. A dysregulated body can’t heal through talk. Once the body softens, we begin the Emotional Rights Assessment: seven areas of well-being, like vitamins for the psyche. Which are nourished? Which are deficient?

From there, we rebuild. Maybe it’s belonging, maybe voice, maybe purpose. By the third or fourth session, clients often realize how much they’ve been tolerating. Their boundaries were like revolving doors—saying yes to things they should decline. As they restore those emotional rights, depression shifts to focus, to energy, to clarity.

I don’t believe in open-ended therapy. Once people learn their own care regimen—how to self-regulate, choose connection, and claim what’s theirs—they can continue on their own.

[38:57] Dr. Chrissie Ott:
That resonates deeply. There’s so much in your model that reminds me of the 12 × 12 framework we use at Joy Point Solutions. We orient people to lifelong self-coaching tools: values, stories, communication, boundaries, and vision. Often in six sessions, people experience what I call a “personal operating-system update.”

[39:28] Dr. Ardeshir Mehran:
Exactly. Those stories we’ve been told—and came to believe—are like cages.

I sometimes show clients a nature-documentary clip: a rescued tiger in a transport cage. The gate opens to a vast green forest, but the tiger just sits there. It knows the bars. Eventually, it steps out, remembers its power, and runs free.

We’re that tiger. Depression is the fight to stay small inside the cage. Our soul is screaming to run.

Understanding Burnout

[42:00] Dr. Chrissie Ott:
That image of the tiger stepping into freedom is so powerful. I want to shift a bit—do you differentiate between depression and burnout?

[42:42] Dr. Ardeshir Mehran:
I do. Burnout typically arises when there’s a mismatch between an individual’s capacity and their environment’s demands. You feel overwhelmed and depleted—like you have nothing left to give.

Interestingly, research shows that people reporting burnout often have underlying depression, anxiety, or ADHD tendencies. So burnout isn’t only about workload; it’s also about internal regulation. It’s like trying to run a marathon with cramped muscles—you can push, but you won’t get far.

Another root of burnout is boundary erosion. When your limits aren’t respected—too much work, too little rest, no acknowledgment—it drains you. The original research on burnout in the 1980s came from healthcare. Surgeons performing procedure after procedure became emotionally exhausted because reflection and recovery were missing.

So yes, environment matters—but so does the inner landscape. Are you attuned to your needs? Do you know how to ask for what matters? If anxiety or numbing keeps you from setting limits, burnout finds fertile ground.

Boundaries and Authentic Work

[45:39] Dr. Chrissie Ott:
Working with healthcare professionals, I’ve seen this over and over. What we often call “burnout” is really the breakdown of boundaries inside environments that don’t support healthy interdependence.

I remember when I was practicing as a hospitalist while also serving as medical director for a pediatric long-term care facility. It was a lot. And even though I loved parts of that work, I wasn’t fulfilling my deeper purpose as a healer.

When I stepped into physician wellness leadership, I started reconnecting with that creative impulse—the part of me that wanted to make change, to connect ideas, to bring people together. That was the inflection point that eventually became Joy Point Solutions.

[47:08] Dr. Ardeshir Mehran:
Yes, exactly. What you’re describing is joy: the feeling of agency, connection, and integrity. When what you’re doing matters—to you, to others—you feel in flow. That’s the essence of joy.

[47:28] Dr. Chrissie Ott:
I still love practicing medicine. But without this other creative, integrative work, it would feel incomplete.

[47:52] Dr. Ardeshir Mehran:
Right. Many people sense that incompleteness yet believe they can’t change it. They tolerate, they compromise. But the moment we begin honoring what truly matters, life reorganizes around that.

Reclaiming Choice and Courage

[48:15] Dr. Chrissie Ott:
We’ve been conditioned to believe in limitations—what’s possible, what’s allowed. It’s understandable; those golden handcuffs can be convincing. I want to offer compassion to anyone who thinks, “I couldn’t possibly…”

But you can. Sometimes it just takes a thought partner—a coach or psychologist—who can help you ask, What are my deepest truths? What must I express before I die? What will make me feel complete?

[49:04] Dr. Ardeshir Mehran:
Absolutely. People often ask me how to find their true calling. You don’t have to go to Bali or make a radical change. Just start by paying attention to where your energy and attention naturally go.

What fascinates you? What stirs you—or even repels you? Follow those breadcrumbs. The patterns reveal your inner compass. Doors open one at a time when you start following what already lights you up.

[51:15] Dr. Chrissie Ott:
And that may evolve. What we’re meant to express in our thirties may differ from what we’re called to in our fifties—and that’s not a problem.

[51:18] Dr. Ardeshir Mehran:
Exactly. We grow, and our joy evolves with us.

The Practice of Joy

[51:38] Dr. Chrissie Ott:
This has been such a lovely, grounding conversation. I’m so glad you’re doing this work. We often end Solving for Joy by asking: what’s bringing you joy right now—even a small joy?

[52:01] Dr. Ardeshir Mehran:
There are many. My wife and I both left corporate life to build our own businesses—she creates children’s games—and now we actually get to see each other. We met as broke students in New York, and we’re still here, still in love, with a wonderful son and a goofy golden retriever.

My garden brings me joy. Playing bad guitar brings me joy—I sing ACDC songs when no one’s around. And working with clients—seeing science become something hopeful and practical—that brings me immense joy.

[53:12] Dr. Chrissie Ott:
That’s beautiful.

[53:41] Dr. Chrissie Ott:
I could talk to you for hours, Ardeshir. Thank you for being here and sharing this profound framework. Where can listeners find you?

[53:58] Dr. Ardeshir Mehran:
You can visit ardeshirmehran.com
. You’ll find videos, downloads, and my book there.

And to anyone listening who feels trapped in emotional struggle—please don’t see it as a life sentence. Often, we simply adapted to an environment that wasn’t right for us. Once we start choosing differently, those emotions shift into energy. People tell me, “I’m not depressed anymore—I’m motivated.”

Your emotions are flexible and dynamic. Healing begins when you take ownership of your life.

[55:46] Dr. Chrissie Ott:
What a beautiful and deeply grounding conversation. A heartfelt thank-you to Dr. Ardeshir Mehran for joining me today and sharing his profound work on the Emotional Rights Framework. His insights remind us that emotional pain isn’t something to hide or fix; it’s often a signal calling us back to ourselves — to our wholeness, connection, and joy.

Friends, the time has come — the Physician Coaching Summit is finally here!
Next week we’ll gather in Carefree, Arizona, for three transformative days under this year’s theme: “Having Our Own Backs.”

This summit is a chance to slow down, reconnect, and remember what truly matters. You’ll be surrounded by kindred spirits — physicians, coaches, and change-makers — all doing the brave work of showing up for themselves and for each other.

If you’ve been thinking about joining us, it’s not too late.
Visit physiciancoachingsummit.com
or reach out to me directly, and I’ll be glad to help you find your way there.

Final Notes

As always, a quick reminder:
While I am a doctor, I’m not your doctor, and this podcast is never intended to be medical advice. Everything shared here is for education, reflection, and inspiration.

Huge thanks to Kelsey Vaughn, the amazing producer who brings these episodes to life each week, and to Su, my sweetheart, for the love and constant support behind the scenes.

We’ll be taking a short break over the next couple of weeks as we prepare for — and recover from — the summit. It’s the perfect time to catch up on past episodes of Solving for Joy if you haven’t already.

We’ll be back soon with more powerful conversations — and a few fun announcements — as we continue this journey of helping one another solve for joy.

Be well.
Take care of yourselves.
And I’ll see you soon.