Solving For Joy

Solving for Joy Podcast
Episode Title: Dr. Sheri Rosenthal on The Four Agreements, Flow, and the Serendipity of What’s Next

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**Dr. Chrissie Ott:** You're listening to *Solving for Joy.* I'm your host, Dr. Chrissie Ott, a multi-boarded integrative physician and professional certified life and career coach. This podcast is about joy — what it means, how we find it, and the creative ways people are solving for it in their own lives. I'm so glad you're here.

**Chrissie:** Hello friends and welcome to today's episode of the *Solving for Joy* podcast. I'm so excited to bring you my new friend, Dr. Sheri Rosenthal. She is the founder and chief retreat strategist at Wanderlust Entrepreneur, where she helps heart-centered entrepreneurs create transformational and profitable retreats.

Over the past two decades, she has trained more than 20,000 retreat leaders to design, price, and promote experiences that are not only impactful but also financially sustainable. And if you’ve ever run a retreat, you know exactly what we’re talking about.

She’s also the CEO of Journeys of the Spirit, a boutique retreat planning agency that has produced over a thousand global retreats since 2003. Sheri’s path of solving for joy has been anything but predictable and ordinary — and I love that about her and so many of my sisters and brethren on this path. A former surgeon and surgical residency program director, she made the decision to leave medicine and follow a spiritual calling, eventually studying for eight years with Don Miguel Ruiz, the author of *The Four Agreements.*

Sheri is all about trust, flow, and creating work that lights you up from the inside out. I can’t wait to share this conversation with you. Sheri, thank you so much for joining me.

**Dr. Sheri Rosenthal:** Thank you for having me, Chrissie. I’m really excited about this. Thank you so much for all that you do.

**Chrissie:** It’s my pleasure. We’ve had a few conversations leading up to today, and I just celebrate this unique path you’ve carved out in the world. I remember having a “stop the presses” moment when you told me you spent eight years working with Don Miguel Ruiz — essentially living and breathing *The Four Agreements.* We have to start there, because that’s a one-of-a-kind story.

**Sheri:** Indeed it is. Ask whatever you want.

**Chrissie:** How did you even connect with that as a possible thread of reality in your world?

**Sheri:** I was in the process of selling my podiatry practice and closing down the residency program I directed. It was November, and the sale had gone through quickly — just two months — and I knew the new residents wouldn’t arrive until summer. I thought, *Okay, I have a few months before the next chapter begins. What am I going to do?*

I’d always loved Carlos Castaneda’s books in college, and I had wished for a Toltec teacher, but of course, he had already passed away. When I began searching online, I came across Don Miguel Ruiz. I saw that he had a retreat happening in Mexico during the exact week I had off — it felt like divine timing. I thought, *This is meant to be. I’m signing up.*

It was my first retreat ever, and when I walked into the opening meeting, I saw him sitting on a couch surrounded by people who looked absolutely enthralled. My first thought was, *What did I just get myself into?*

Coming from New York, I wasn’t used to that kind of spiritual energy — I joked that it must be all the Californians! But Don Miguel looked at me, motioned with his finger for me to come over, and said, “Sit down.” From that moment on, he captivated me. That trip changed my life.

I didn’t yet know what I was going to do next, but I knew I needed to learn more. And I realized something life-altering: the source of all the issues in my life wasn’t my job, my parents, or my ex-husbands — it was me. That realization was painful but powerful. I cried a lot, but it was worth every tear. Taking responsibility for myself was the beginning of everything.

A year or two later, his business manager moved on, and Don Miguel asked me to run his business for two years until his heart attack. After that, he told me it was time to go teach the work myself — and that’s what I’ve been doing ever since.

**Chrissie:** That’s amazing. I think about the power of serendipity — how sometimes we don’t realize we’re in a life-changing moment until much later. You signed up for your first-ever retreat, and that became the seed for a lifetime of guiding others through transformation. That’s extraordinary.

**Sheri:** It really was. Everything just unfolded perfectly.

**Chrissie:** How did you know it was time to leave medicine? That’s a big decision, and you clearly loved your work.

**Sheri:** Every cell in my body was screaming, *It’s time to leave.* It wasn’t burnout — it was simply completion. I’d done what I was meant to do. I trusted that even though I didn’t know what came next, I had enough inside me to find my way. So I put the practice up for sale — and within two months, a former professor connected me with a couple looking to buy a podiatry practice in Florida. They visited, we talked, and the deal closed at exactly the price I’d hoped for. I even sold them the building later. It was pure flow.

**Chrissie:** That’s such a beautiful example of alignment — when something is right, it unfolds with ease. It reminds me of what happens when we stop pushing against resistance and just twist the doorknob instead of ramming the door.

**Sheri:** Exactly. That’s the magic of flow — when it’s aligned with your highest good, things open naturally.

**Chrissie:** Tell me about how *Wanderlust Entrepreneur* came to be.

**Sheri:** I’d been teaching *The Four Agreements* for 12 years when one of my students passed away. It was another turning point — I knew I was meant to shift again but didn’t know how. I took a business coaching program, but the direction they were pushing me didn’t feel right. I listened to my intuition and started asking myself, *What do I know and love deeply?*

I’d been running my travel agency, *Journeys of the Spirit*, since 2003 but never thought of teaching people how to design retreats. Then it clicked — it was right in front of me all along. I tested the idea, and it took off immediately. I launched *Wanderlust Entrepreneur* in 2014, and it’s been thriving ever since.

**Chrissie:** What a perfect example of trusting serendipity — the right idea revealing itself when you’re ready to receive it.

**Sheri:** Yes, exactly. Sometimes we can’t see what’s right in front of us because our attention is focused on what we think *should* happen. But when we let go, the right thing appears effortlessly.

**Chrissie:** For people who sense they’re being called into a new chapter but are afraid to take that leap — what would you tell them?

**Sheri:** Have faith that you’ll survive and that you already have everything you need inside of you. Most of us underestimate our inner strength, creativity, and resilience. When we stop listening to the fear and start listening to what lights us up, opportunities appear. The path unfolds one step at a time — all you have to do is take the next step.

**Chrissie:** That’s so resonant — especially for high achievers and professionals who are used to knowing all the steps in advance. It’s easy to rely on thinking our way through everything, but sometimes the only thing we can do is trust the process.

**Sheri:** Absolutely. When I studied with Don Miguel, I experienced three days of total mental silence. No thoughts — just pure awareness. It taught me that we don’t actually *need* to think constantly. When the inner dialogue quiets, our attention opens to the infinite. We realize we’re not our thoughts — we’re the awareness behind them.

**Chrissie:** That’s such a profound insight — so aligned with what many contemplative traditions teach: when we release identification with our thoughts, we make space for truth, creativity, and joy.

**Sheri:** Exactly. The mind is a wonderful tool, but it’s not the master. When we let go and trust, we align with flow.

**Chrissie:** Let’s talk about *The Four Agreements.* For listeners who may not be familiar, can you share what they are?

**Sheri:** Of course. The first agreement is *Be impeccable with your word* — it’s the hardest one because it’s about how we speak to others and to ourselves. The second is *Don’t take anything personally.* The third is *Don’t make assumptions.* And the fourth is *Always do your best.*

They sound simple, but they’re incredibly deep when practiced. Being impeccable with your word means speaking truth without judgment — even in your own mind. We say things to ourselves every day like, “I look terrible,” or “I’m not good enough,” and that’s not impeccable. The word is powerful — it creates or destroys.

**Chrissie:** Yes, that ties beautifully into something I’ve talked about before — how words can act like medicine or poison. Even positive labels can become cages if we attach too tightly to them.

**Sheri:** Exactly. And the second agreement — not taking things personally — helps us stay in emotional neutrality. Whatever others say or do reflects their own beliefs, not our worth. The same goes for assumptions — the mind loves to fill in gaps with its own stories. When we pause and get curious instead, relationships and communication improve dramatically.

**Chrissie:** And *Always do your best* feels like an invitation to compassion — especially for perfectionists.

**Sheri:** Yes. Our “best” changes day to day. Some days, 60% really is our best — and that’s okay. Recognizing that honors both ourselves and others.

**Chrissie:** I love how these teachings show up in the everyday moments — not as lofty ideals, but as practical tools for living with more peace and authenticity.

**Sheri:** That’s exactly it. They’re meant to be lived, not just understood.

**Chrissie:** Speaking of living it — you have a retreat coming up in Croatia. Tell us about it!

**Sheri:** Yes! We’ve chartered a 161-foot private yacht with 17 rooms, a private chef, and a captain. We’ll sail from Dubrovnik to Split and back, stopping at different islands along the way. We’ll spend time exploring, swimming, eating incredible food, and masterminding our businesses together. It’s part retreat, part creative community. Everyone gets a chance to sit in the “love seat” to share what they’re building and receive reflections from others. It’s a powerful way to connect, collaborate, and play — all while sailing the Adriatic!

**Chrissie:** That sounds amazing — a floating mastermind for the soul!

**Sheri:** It’s one of my favorite things we do. And for those who can’t travel, we also host large online events. Our fifth annual retreat training had over 5,000 participants this year from all over the world. It’s incredible to see how far the ripple of this work reaches.

**Chrissie:** That’s the image that comes to mind — concentric circles expanding outward, each retreat leader carrying their own wave of healing and inspiration into the world.

**Sheri:** Exactly. It’s the joy of seeing others step into their purpose.

**Chrissie:** You also teach the practical side of retreats — legal, financial, logistical. What do leaders most need to understand?

**Sheri:** That safety and structure matter. You’re responsible for people’s well-being, so insurance, waivers, and compliance with seller-of-travel laws are essential. Once that’s in place, you can relax and focus on transformation. Structure creates safety for creativity to flourish.

**Chrissie:** That’s such a good reminder — safety and spirit are not opposites; they support each other.

**Sheri:** Exactly.

**Chrissie:** Sheri, thank you for everything you’ve shared today — your story, your wisdom, and your radiant example of what it looks like to trust life’s timing. Any final words for listeners who feel that inner nudge to step into something new?

**Sheri:** Yes — life is short. Don’t wait. When I told my patients I was leaving medicine, the younger ones were upset. But the older ones, especially those in their nineties, all said the same thing: “Life is short. I wish I had done everything I wanted instead of worrying what others thought.” That’s what I carry with me. You’re living your own life — no one else’s. So listen to your inner voice and follow it. That’s where joy lives.

**Chrissie:** Beautifully said. Thank you, Sheri — and may you keep solving for joy wherever your next adventure leads.

**Sheri:** Thank you, Chrissie. This was wonderful.

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**Chrissie (closing):** Thank you to Dr. Sheri Rosenthal for sharing this remarkable conversation about her journey from surgery to spirit — reminding us that joy often lives on the other side of letting something familiar go. From *The Four Agreements* and Don Miguel Ruiz to the art of leading transformational retreats, Sheri shows us that flow begins when we choose trust over fear.

Next week, we’ll shift from the business of purpose to the heart of parenting with pediatric dietitian, author, and podcast host **Jill Castle**, whose book *Kids Thrive at Every Size* invites us to nourish both body and spirit.

And a quick reminder — the **Physician Coaching Summit** at Civana Wellness Resort and Spa in Carefree, Arizona, is now less than a month away. It’s not too late to join us November 6–8 for a CME-accredited weekend of rest, renewal, and connection.

As always, I’m a doctor, but not your doctor. This podcast is for education and connection only. Please consult your own clinician about your individual situation.

Special thanks to our producer **Kelsey Vaughn**, and to my wonderful wife, Su.
**Music by Denys Kyshchuk (AudioCoffee)** – [https://www.audiocoffee.net](https://www.audiocoffee.net)

May you trust the timing of your own transformations and follow the call toward whatever lights you up next.

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