Solving For Joy

Sonny: [00:00:00] the more I, try to do things simply for the joy of doing them, not because I need to exercise or like a checkbox, but because like I really just want to feel good it's just so, different than the way that I lived the other 44 years of my life. Right? It's so easy to lose the pleasure and the joy. So it has to be intentional.

Chrissie: if we stop long enough to check in and ask a couple, self-inquiry assessment questions, we can actually feel and sense and know if the outside is aligned with the inside, if we are actually in congruence or in dissonance.

Sonny: You have to be present and paying attention to see those joys, right? Because if we're caught in our heads, we miss those tiny joys, but those tiny joys, they're cumulative. They create the big [00:01:00] joys.

Chrissie: You're listening to Solving for Joy. I'm your host, Dr. Chrissie Ott.

Hello everyone, and truly welcome to today's episode of the Solving for Joy podcast. Today I get to be joined by Dr. Sonny Miles. She is a palliative and integrative medicine physician and founder of healing with intention integrative medicine in Colorado, as well as honoring the wisdom within her new coaching practice. Sonny's path is rooted in deep curiosity and care. She studied brain and cognitive sciences at MIT. Spent time in the Peace Corps in Paraguay and has walked with people through some of life's most tender and transformative moments. Her work blends science, story and spiritual care, and what I love is that she doesn't treat joy as something separate from healing, but really an [00:02:00] integrated part.

So whether you're navigating something heavy, supporting someone you love in something challenging, or just longing to feel more connected to yourself, may this episode meet you right where you are. Sonny. I'm so glad you're here. Welcome.

Sonny: Thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here.

Chrissie: Yes. I love to ask up top what about joy in this season for you? What is it looking like and feeling like?

Sonny: Joy has to be, I think, intentional. I at least my own conditioning, and I think the conditioning is in medicine is, is that work often comes first and the practice of creating joy, of leaning into joy has to be intentional. And for me, I've had a lot of things going on this spring. Um, I worked more [00:03:00] in the hospital and I'm still trying to build my own practice and I had some family things happening and it's so easy to lose the joy. It is so easy to just do the work and it is so essential. What I, My quest is to feel sort of that aliveness and that. That vibrant connection to me, and that happens through joy and it's so easy to lose it when life gets busy or hectic or things are difficult.

Chrissie: Yes, it's kind of like fitness. It's not gonna just happen. You have to kind of go for it. You have to pave the way a little bit. I've been, um, I've been into a little side project that I've mentioned on a previous podcast of creating a daily planner that is really about creating a schedule aligned with joy. And bringing in, [00:04:00] you know, practices to support joy in our actual, like daily planner notebook note taker guide. So it's fun to me to think about how, um, how that will serve what you just pointed out about making it intentional.

Sonny: Yeah. Yeah, and I think intent is so important. Like we can do the same activity and we can do it for pleasure or joy or we can, you know, like walking is an act or hiking is an activity that really brings me joy. But if I go on a walk because it's exercise and I should exercise, it has a such a different feel than if it's like, this is my joy practice.

Chrissie: Right. It's like a forced march or an exploratory adventure.

Sonny: Yes, yes. Yes.

Chrissie: Um, that comes up frequently in coaching for me, that we can do the exact same action from totally different thoughts, you [00:05:00] know, and from totally different feelings. And the results will actually contain, uh, the fruit of whatever seed we planted. So, you know, paying the bills, Is an act that we can do out of distress or values aligned care.

Sonny: Yeah.

Chrissie: really, and it carries us differently when we do those things from different energies. I love that you pointed that

Sonny: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I grew up sort of in the wellness industry, like my mom owned a natural skincare company, and so I was really introduced. Young to this whole like natural health world. And I feel like my own realization just recently is so much of the messaging around wellness is you have to work for it. Right? And so I think so much of even the integrative medicine or the wellness world is like we, we need to exercise X number of minutes, or we need to eat this many fruits and [00:06:00] vegetables as opposed to like. Really doing it because the point of life is joy and like easing into that, like finding how we can settle into that.

Like I go to the farmer's market and I get this delicious fruit and I eat it because it's delicious and fresh as opposed to like, I'm eating it 'cause I need X amount of fiber and X number of servings of fruits and vegetables. Like I just, it's been a radical shift for me to change to a compass of pleasure and joy.

Chrissie: Um, yes. Bunny rabbits do not count fiber grams. They just do them. They do them right. So it's, it's lovely to think about aligning with pleasure and ease and feeling supported by health inducing impulses, you know, in intuitive eating. Intuitive living towards joy. Um, I really recognize that sort of feeling of a, a [00:07:00] wellness homecoming. Um, as some know, I started off as a massage therapist. I went to massage school at age 18, Sonny, and so I was immersed in like the early nineties wellness culture from the perspective of a very young massage therapist. Bless her sweet little heart. And, you know, like eating at the health food store and doing that stuff before it was quite as, um, you know, part of mainstream culture and it, it really does make a difference to have come from that vantage point, from that point of view into allopathic medicine and bringing a little bit of that with us and mixing it around wherever we go, including hospital medicine, including palliative care, including all.

Sonny: Yeah. Yes. It is very hard though 'cause medicine is so indoctrinating, right? The, the messages are so powerful that there is one [00:08:00] correct way to do medicine that despite like being so steeped in it and, um always wanting to be a healer and not really knowing what that looked like and then deciding that was through an md, right? That that was gonna be my best education to be a healer. And then I chose to be a hospitalist because I was like, this is where western medicine or allopathic medicine works the best, is in these like acute settings. Yet it's, it was so hard to find my way back and figure out how to blend them because the messaging around allopathic medicine being the right or the correct or the one way to do it is it's hard to break free of.

Chrissie: It's, the message is that there's a a pretty linear path and people who veer from the path risk, ostracization judgment. [00:09:00] Um, you know, being shunned from the group of, you know, we are, we are medicine. Um, it is so important to have those different points of view. So important to have both and, and much like you, you know, decided allopathic medicine and MD was the way forward, and in fact, a dual board certifying residency was the way forward for me. So that I could have the most conservative credentials possible to ground whatever left-leaning woo expression of healing I knew I was going to eventually embody

Sonny: Yes, exactly. Wanted the credentials to bridge the worlds, and I don't know that they're that Bridgeable in many ca in many cases.

Chrissie: there. Yes, yes. I, I appreciate the way that I did it. Um, and I'm not sure that the why is still exactly the same, but, you know, we're, we're there for reasons. We, we [00:10:00] take our paths for reasons. Um, speaking of our paths, yours has been quite circuitous, which I recognize and appreciate and love. So I, I just really enjoy sharing with our listeners what kinds of detours and in between moment moments, um many of us physician healers have in our past. So tell me a little bit about that.

Sonny: Yeah, I feel like my path has been one of like being intensely engaged and then stepping back. Right? And because in the intense engagement, it's like knowing that that's not the right path to continue, but then needing to step back and figure out what is the right path. So for me, that looked like being an undergrad at MIT, which was amazing, but intense. And then having this knowledge that I didn't really know what the next step was. And so I, I did Peace Corps. I wanted to serve, I wanted to [00:11:00] explore somewhere else. Um, and, and it was, it was this incredible different experience, and that's where I decided to do medicine. And I, I feel like I was so committed and so certain that medicine was the path that when residency was hard. It like it wasn't, there was never any doubt, right? Like I was very clear that I was where I wanted to be and where I felt like my soul's path was meant to be.

And then I, I became a hospitalist. I worked for Indian Health Services. It was the same idea of like, I wanna serve, like I'm in San Francisco, I'm in this big city and I love it, and yet I need to get back to more space, more connection to nature, and, and I wanted to serve. And so I did that for almost three years and I got burnt out really quickly. Um, it was the same I, in [00:12:00] looking back, I, every place I've worked, I tried to make myself fit into the system and constantly tried to change or better myself so that I could, I. I could be happy and do the work, and it just never, I never actually fit.

And so for me, I began to get what I called the re revolving door of like we would patch people up and they would go back to their homes with, you know, unhealthy foods and no access to like electricity or running water or education to better manage their diabetes. And so then it, it just didn't feel like my impact was what I wanted it to be. Like. I wasn't really helping people in the way that I wanted. And so I did the, that's when I started the Andrew Weil Integrative Medicine Fellowship.

Um, at the same time I was really fascinated by sort of end of life care. And for me it was really about being a truth teller. Like I saw so much happen in [00:13:00] hospitals where the expectation of the patient for the outcome didn't really align with what the team or the doctors thought was possible or would likely happen. And so for me, that desire to do palliative care was really about. Being able to have hard conversations with people about what might really be possible and giving them back the power to make decisions over their own healthcare and what they would choose. And so then I, I went to San Diego to do palliative care Fellowship.

Um. And I took, I, after fellowship, I had my first son and so I basically took a year off and did some locums hospital medicine. Um, and, and then we moved to Colorado and I did inpatient palliative care initially, and again, two years and I was like, I can't do this. This doesn't work. And I worked, then I worked in the cancer center, um, and did entirely palliative oncology and [00:14:00] I loved it. And yet I was talking to people every day about what matters if life is short. And yet I left at the end of the day, like depleted and I felt like I was running through my days, like trying to see all the patients and get my notes done. And I'm an integrative physician and I didn't want to exercise and I didn't want to cook like I wanted comfort food, you know? 'Cause it was just. It was survival. And so it took a long time to get to the point that I was like, I, I'm not, I can't do this. This isn't like I am taking care of people and like every day get to talk to people who are dying. Some of them my own age, some of them, you know, farther in life. But this is not what, if this were my last year of life, this is not the life that I, that I want.

So then I, I ventured out and I started a small integrative medicine practice and it's been really challenge, a challenging journey to [00:15:00] grow and to figure out who I am as a healer, right? Like, I worked as an internist and I worked as a palliative care physician. And yet, like who am I if I bring all the parts of me together and what does that healing actually look like? And so I. I do a little bit of inpatient palliative care work. Um, it's actually quite challenging to step away from the system for so many reasons, right? Um, both income and sort of that connection to identity of what it means to be a doctor in the healthcare system. So I'm still sort of in that transition, but my life is so much better than it was before.

Chrissie: There's so much richness to unpack in what you've just shared with us. And I, I think so much of what you've shared is, um, common, perhaps not universal, that's a bold claim, but at least very, very common, very common amongst our caring physician colleagues. First of all, the nobility of that call to serve. [00:16:00] Um, and then, you know, we are taught in medical ethics about, you know, the virtue of self-sacrifice. And I, I still agree that there is certainly a part of putting ourselves second or third that is inherent. Um, but we have taken it far, far, far too far. And, and then, you know, it gets mixed in, I think with profit motives of the healthcare industrial complex, especially in the United States.

But going from this young noble calling to serve, to finding the awareness of your dissonance, being a truth teller, wanting to further empower patients, and then to integrate all that you bring and are. And serve it back up in a way that doesn't harm or kill you. In that story, in that little cycle right there is so [00:17:00] much for people to absorb. And I wanna really highlight that moment of the awareness of dissonance because how do we know when it time for the courage it takes to face a transition? You know, how do we know when it's time to reach out for support to grow our courage to face the transition? What were some moments where you clicked into That?

Sonny: Um, for me it's about that connection, right? Like that when I said before that like aliveness, that feeling that like being well now and being well resourced, then you notice when you're overcommitted or overstretch or you kind of lose that connection to what matters. But I think medical training disconnects you [00:18:00] like, you have to be disconnected in order to get through the training in so many ways, physically, emotionally, all of it. And, and so then we just keep going. And like I said, for me, I worked as a hospitalist and then I did, took a break and did fellowship again, and then I did inpatient palliative care and then I was unhappy and did outpatient palliative care.

And it was just that like each to the point where it was like, I really, the patient conversations can always bring me to the moment where like the connection with other people, but it was all the other things that I just feel like I was having to drag myself through. Like I just wasn't excited to do all of the other things. Um, and again, it was that knowing that I had nothing left to give at the end of the day. And I, I, horses are my, my happy place and they're my [00:19:00] teachers and it's like I had four horses and I didn't ride ever. Right? Like, this is something that had been sustaining to me and yet it had, you know, for a time you expect all of those things to leave. And yet I was like, wait, but I'm like. Seven years out of training and I'm still not creating this life that feels abundant and expansive and, and joyful, and so.

The first, when I was finishing my inpatient palliative care job, my intention had been to try to start my own practice, but it was COVID and I got scared and I was like, no, I feel safer staying in this structure. And so then I took my an outpatient palliative care job, and I'm glad I did. I learned so much from that job, but it was very clear, very quickly that the same sort of existential dread was weighing me down and it wasn't gonna be the answer. Right. And then, so I did coaching, like I, I [00:20:00] have done a lot of therapy and I have an amazing therapist, but then I also added, I did the empowering Women Physicians coaching and I, when I was transitioning between things, I found a shamanic healer because I really wanted to be intentional about my transition and I wanted to release like the stuff that I was carrying so that when I went into this new place, this new phase of my life, I wasn't carrying all the energetic baggage with me.

Chrissie: Amazing. So much of what I hear is that you noticed that there, the outside was not matching the inside, that your inner wisdom, um, as I like to refer to it, our creative wisdom, but also, you know, like you refer to it in your name, like Inner Wisdom has, um, it has a template. For us, and if we stop long enough to check in and ask a couple, you know, self-inquiry assessment [00:21:00] questions, we can actually feel and sense and know if the outside is aligned with the inside, if we are actually in congruence or in dissonance.

Sonny: Yes. Sometimes it's hard to believe though, because sometimes what it's asking are big changes and big transitions.

Chrissie: Right. And we can also, you know, fall prey to the thought that just because our, you know, second or third job is not the dream job, that somehow we're wrong for that, but having an iterative process, especially in today's economy, no matter what field you're in, but especially in medicine, it's much more common to have an iterative career where you are at different institutions or you step in and out of systems to experience what it's like to be a [00:22:00] physician and a healer in different ways. Nothing wrong with an iterative process. It's our PDSA, plan, do, study act, cycle of quality improvement. Maybe it's our pDSA for life improvement.

Sonny: I really think it's the healing journey, right? It's, it's circuitous, it's winding, it's, it kind of requires you to go deeper and deeper within yourself.

Chrissie: Yes, it does. When you talk to people about reconnecting with their inner wisdom, what does that ask of them?

Sonny: It's really about reconnecting to the body. I think the, the body holds so much information. Um, and I didn't know this for a long time, right? Like we were taught to just push our bodies and use them, and even when. I, in the wellness industry, even when I was taught to take [00:23:00] care of my body, it was often about like longevity, right? If we do all the right things, we won't get sick and we'll live longer or, you know, stay healthy. But it was about avoiding illness as opposed to this idea that we're really loving and caring and having compassion for our bodies.

And I did a training program with Doc Dr. Lisa Rankin, physician author, and she uses a lot of internal family systems, um, which is parts work. And so really connecting sort of the parts work and part of what, when you're connecting with a part or talking to a part, the beginning questions are like, where in your body do you feel this part and sort of what sensations do you feel? And so really through that, through parts work and landing in my body is how I began to learn all the things my body was holding.

Right. And then I also, I [00:24:00] through other pe, like I work with a craniosacral therapist and one of the messages that came from my body is I'm letting, I'm letting other people's grief get stuck. Like I'm carrying around all of this grief from the work that I do, and I'm letting it get stuck in my body. So when I work with people, so many people like we talked about, are so disconnected that I think it's first a process of just teaching them like what is contraction versus expansion, right? Like what are moments where you feel small or you feel like uncomfortable and wanna protect yourself? And where do you feel that? And what does that feel like versus the joyful moments or the moments where you feel an intuitive Yes. Or you feel like everything is right or you know, that joyful, expansive, powerful feeling and just starting by teaching people the differences in that contraction and expansion, and then asking them to sort of notice as they go through their days, [00:25:00] like how, where that shows up.

And then you can, you can take it farther, right? You can use that contraction expansion to make decisions about your health or about what you're eating or your job or all of the things. 'cause the wisdom is there. The wisdom is inside the body. It's not up here. We try to make decisions here. My shamanic teacher said, recently she said, when it's a yes, it's a yes. And when it's a no, it's clearly a no. But most of the maybes are nos that we're trying to tuck ourselves into. And as I've like played with that, it's so true that often the maybe is like, I don't really wanna do it, but my mind is telling me I should do it, or it'd be good for me to do it, or I might disappoint someone. And so really learning to make those decisions somatically.

Chrissie: I wanna, so much. I heard somebody describe this a year or two ago, as you know how upwardly displaced we are, that we carry our bodies [00:26:00] as if they're just a plant stand for our heads, but our bodies really carry so much knowing and we must open the channels between the two deeply. Especially between our head, our heart and our gut. Those three wisdom centers, they're so important. And I really resonate with that proposal that so many of our, I don't knows, and maybes are nos in disguise that we're just afraid to say because of how we are socialized, you know, and because there is some risk in, in not pleasing people around us at times. But that aligns with my understanding of joy, which is meaning, alignment and delight.

When we're in integrity with our purpose, [00:27:00] that's meaning when we're aligned, body, mind, and spirit, obviously that's alignment and with our values and delight is just this effervescent, like cherry on top that happens when you feel. Deeply grounded and rooted in there. And sometimes it goes both ways. You start with delight 'cause there's just like on, on my walk today, this giant bloom of star jasmine just like filling the air with that delicious scent. Like that was a joyful moment. It's a tiny, tiny little joy.

Sonny: You have to be present and paying attention to see those joys, right? Because if we're caught in our heads, we miss those tiny joys, but those tiny joys, you know, they're cumulative. They create the big joys.

Chrissie: I went, I went into the stand of Jasmine and took a giant sniff, just like filled [00:28:00] my airways up with this delicious smell. And I'm thinking like, what else is happening on like a microscopic level? When we get those aromatics mixed in with our, the inside of our body? You know, we're meant to be in connection to nature, so I don't know what it does, but. It feels important. It feels important to commune a little bit what's available to us in nature.

Sonny: And scent is really powerful. Like I I really love essential oils, and when you use oils over and over, they're, they become an anchor, right? They can really help you anchor and ground and, you know, connect, connect to the plants because the plant is in the oil, right, like and where the plant grew and how the plant was harvested, and all of that is, is in the scent. And so if you really, if you really take it in, it can be a really [00:29:00] incredibly powerful connecting experience to use a beautiful oil.

Chrissie: Sonny, this is such a fun little detour. Um, it compels me to share that during, um, COVID times, one of my secret hacks was to carry a lavender essential oil with me and whatever mask I needed to wear, whether it was an N95 or not, different moments of time, different rooms I was in. Um. I would just place a little dot of, of essential oil on sort of the cheek side of my mask so that I was bathed in just the right amount of calming lavender all the time. And I began to associate wearing my mask with aromatherapy of lavender. And I hope there are many other people who did the same thing. I mean, I just carried it with me all the time and it was such a pleasurable, an easy alternative to [00:30:00] smelling my breath or just the inside of an overused mask, which was just, a really gross part of, um,

Sonny: Right, right. Well, and it just, you know, it was such a tense time. Like the, like our nervous systems were really pushed, right? So even that little bit of like lavender helps regulate the nervous system and like bring you into a different space. It's lovely.

Chrissie: Absolutely. And when I had my solo micropractice, um, back in the day, I would, I would start the day off. It was one of my morning rituals every day to put eucalyptus oil in a diffuser. And so I had this whole association of, you know, energizing eucalyptus being part of my environment at work, um, which was also so pleasing. Um, thinking about, you know, during [00:31:00] labor my OB and other birth support folks, um, you know taught to use a cotton ball with some essential oils, um, to help give yourself a little extra sensory input that would be pleasing and calming and not the sterile smells of a hospital, which we know all too well.

Sonny: Yes, yes, there's so many ways that are easy to, again, it's all these like micro moments of connection to something else and of nervous system regulation that really can change your day, could change your life.

Chrissie: So true. Um, we shared a little bit before, uh, we started. Recording about how pleasure and ease and flow are, um, informing the curves that you are making in your career and life right now. Um, I wonder what what wisdom wants to come out about how [00:32:00] those things are guiding you.

Sonny: I I grew up with this work ethic, right? And medicine amplified that of like, you have to do the work and, um, I. At MIT, we used to have the saying that like, you can have fun or you can sleep or you can work, like you can get your academic stuff done. So pick two out of three, because there isn't time for all of them. Right? And work

Chrissie: I love it.

Sonny: was always one. Yes,

Chrissie: It's the, it's the MIT version of Fast, good, or uh, cheap, right? Like you can have two outta the three

Sonny: exactly.

Chrissie: inexpensive.

Sonny: So it's like I just was like, I have been conditioned my family and then education to just to work so hard. And I think then you have sort of the cultural conditioning that. That our worth is tied to our work and our productivity. And I think that is very [00:33:00] true in in the culture of medicine that we now practice in, like the messages, hustle, hustle, hustle, like produce the rvu, see the patients, et cetera.

Chrissie: RVU's, Relative value units. Friends, if you're not a physician and you're listening to this, we are graded on how many widgets we produce, and those widgets are called relative value units. And someone else decides how many of them we should produce, and somebody else decides how much they're worth and somebody else decides how many of them there are per type of visit. So none of it is actually in our control, except how fast can we run on this productivity treadmill, which from time to time gets sped up, uh, without our consent

Sonny: Yeah, and I would never slow down and I would say as a palliative care physician, like absolutely I could see the number of people in the day, can I sit with that much grief in a day and that much pain and stay well day after [00:34:00] day after day and week after week after week? And, and I can't, right? And it doesn't matter how much self care I do outside of work like it was it it's too much for, for me and I think for many people, but definitely for speaking for myself. Like I couldn't do full-time palliative care and stay well. And I love going into the hospital now because I am well resourced and I can really show up and be be who I am and be a healer.

Um, but, but back to the pleasure question. I was very conditioned to just work, work, work. And it's really been this, trying to disentangle my value and self worth from the doing. And it is that I, like, I started my own micro practice and it has been very slow to build from a, from a revenue and patient volume perspective. And yet the amount of growth and transformation that I've undergone in that time is, it's [00:35:00] not quantifiable, right? Like I my life and who I am, like I'm so, i'm so glad to be who I am at this point. I'm so grateful for the journey, and yet I'm like, I need, I need income. I need all of these things. I need to be successful.

And so it's really in last summer, I got COVID in August and I, my family went on a camping trip without me. And I was just scrolling social media and I had this, this intuitive knowledge that I was like missing a connection to sensuality, to that part of myself. Um, and I found like Amanda Hansen and Mama Gina, and some of these people who are way outside of my comfort zone. But in, in doing work with Amanda Hansen, like one of the things she says is like, pleasure is the fuel. And the more I, I try to do things simply for the joy of doing them. Not because I need to [00:36:00] exercise or like a checkbox, but because like I really just want to feel good or I want to fuel myself. Like it's just so, it's so different than the way that I lived the other 44 years of my life. Right?

And it's so liberating and it, it is energizing and it's still hard. Right. My, my husband is out of town currently 'cause his dad is in the hospital and so it's me with my kids who are six and almost eight and my four horses and my two dogs. And you know, just the weight of trying to manage everything. It's so easy to lose the pleasure and the joy. So it has to be intentional.

Chrissie: Such a juicy piece of information and insight. Sonny. Um, I have the inspiration to talk about [00:37:00] you Hedonia because we are trained to be anhedonic right? Um, anhedonic is against pleasure or without pleasure. It's the ops of hedonistic, which, you know, I am thinking about, you know, creek festivals and diocese and things like this, right? But you, hedonia is actually a very healthy state. It is like the healthy in pleasure. It is the middle way as it relates to pleasure. And if you have veered into hedonistic behavior, which is not supportive to a life that's aligned, that needs to be course corrected. But if you're in medicine, most likely you have been habituated to the other side where Anne Hedonia has become the norm. You are a functional, like automatic robot on auto [00:38:00] drive that forgot that pleasure is part of being a human being. Like, eat the grapes, you know, eat them while they're good. Jump in a mud puddle. Squish the slime that your kid brings home 'cause it feels good. I love that insight. Thank you for bringing me to that, that thought about you Hedonia and how important it is to tend to our own pleasure. I know there are many people out there, I don't know amanda Hanson and Mama Gina, but are they in the field of like existential kink also? Is that

Sonny: Um, one of amanda Hansen recommended the book Existential Kink in one of the groups I was in, but yes, it's that like, that again, pleasure. And our connection to our sensuality and our femininity is like our power, right? And so it's really connecting deeply to the feminine [00:39:00] and the, I did a six month mastermind with Amanda Hansen. She's a clinical psychologist by training and, and it was archetype based. So we went through like the divine mother and the assassin priestess and, the sacred whore was her, her word for it, but lover and, um, the sovereign queen.

And just really understanding like how each of those archetypes shows up in us and how we use them in our life. Like which situation might call for your rage, right? Versus which situation calls for sort of the sovereign queen and when to mother yourself and when to connect to that lover and that pleasure of like just being in the moment for pleasure. And so it was, it was a really beautiful way to, to know myself and to nurture those qualities.

Because one of the things is like as a physician and a mom, those are like the only two archetypes that we're showing up, right? Like healer and [00:40:00] mother. And, and then we lose access to like the broader, our broader self of all these other pieces of ourself. And I, I loved getting to like, reconnect and develop even more deeply these other archetypes or pieces of myself to feel more whole.

Chrissie: This is reminding me of this song by meredith Brooks. I. Do you remember the song, bitch?

Sonny: No.

Chrissie: I'm a bitch. I'm a lover. I'll have that. Anyway, we'll, we're gonna follow this up with some links to Meredith Brooks and also Ani DiFranco 32 Flavors because it is so important, and I love thinking about this as one of the paths home, especially for women. Um. If that path is calling to you right now, listen to it. Get with some music that inspires you. Find the [00:41:00] resources that support you, and start interacting with those archetypal parts too. Because they exist and they have wisdom.

Sonny: Yes.

Chrissie: They have deep rooted wisdom for each and every one of us. And if you have a woman in your life, it's nice to think about that she has archetypes other than mom and physician and fill in the blank. Obvious role of service. Um, it's beautiful to, to pull from those things.

Sonny: Well, and I think even owning archetypes as you move, or parts of yourself, I think, you know, I've done a lot of internal family systems work, and then I've done this archetype work, and I think often they're speaking of the same things in different words. Right. And I, I love that, like seeing the bridges and even in shamanism, like if I'm working with guides, some of those guides are parts of myself [00:42:00] too, right?

Like I, but like, I was doing a coaching session this morning and it was like that archetype, like who are you when you're in front of the microphone or when you're creating content? Um, it's not, you don't wanna be the Sonny that's like having doubts and doesn't know if you're good enough and isn't sure that you're gonna see the right thing. Right? Like owning, like who, which archetype is showing up and moving into that situation and that archetype, so that you're taking that power with you.

Chrissie: Yeah. My visuals right now are like actual like archetypical regalia, like envisioning the archetype and wearing the regalia of whatever it is that who you are wanting and needing to connect with and embody.

Sonny: yes.

Chrissie: Um, it's not unfamiliar. I mean, it's kind of similar to certain deity practices, uh, in [00:43:00] eastern religions where the object is not actually to worship and external deity, but to acknowledge the essence of that deity that you can connect to within.

Sonny: yes, yes. There's a book, awakening Shakti, I think it's by Sally Kempton. And it's, it's again, looking at the archetypes of the Hindu pantheon. The goddesses. So it's, you know, it's different cultural names and, and incarnations, but it's the same sort of elemental archetypal energy. I just, it's, again, there's different ways to access it in whatever speaks to you.

Chrissie: Beautiful. You described the um the time that it takes to create and populate a new practice. And I just felt called also to share the image of [00:44:00] growing roots that oftentimes the, the season of growing roots does not show or bear fruit, but it is growing the most essential network of. Connections. I am absorbing that as medicine myself and, uh, offering it to anybody who feels a little curious, discontent, or impatient with the pace of their results.

Sonny: Thank you that that resonates. I wrote a social media post. I had listened to Katrina Ubell talk about writing her book and sort of the fact that it took three years and then, you know, she teaches about weight loss and like, what if your weight loss journey takes three years? And it's really that like. What is the time in a journey? Like it's, I'm three years in and I'm a different person, and it's wonderful. And what really, what is the journey? And, [00:45:00] and we, we are taught to want it to happen quickly. And yet the in-between space is where the richness often is. it's not it's not at the goal. Yeah.

Chrissie: Yeah. Yeah. Um, for our listeners, um, especially somebody who's listening and wondering, how do I work with Sonny How do I find her? Please share with us where they can find you and, and what you're up

Sonny: On Instagram, I am with my practice healing with intention I am. And my website is healing with intention. I am.com and I'm beginning a new coaching practice doing retreats and hopefully a coaching cohort in the fall, and that's honoring the wisdom within.com. So I'm very excited to move forward on this journey and keep learning along with everyone else.

Chrissie: Yes. Linking arms moving forward. [00:46:00] Thank you for being you and for doing the work that you do. Sonny thank you for integrating so many different wisdom streams and offering them in your particular way,

Sonny: Thank you for having me.

Chrissie: And thanks for being on our podcast today.

Sonny: Thank you.

Chrissie: It's lovely to have you until next time.

Thank you again to Dr. Sonny Miles for this rich and rooted conversation. I'm still holding onto her reminder that pleasure is a practice and that joy isn't something we earn, it's something we choose. Those tiny moments of connection and intention, they matter more than we think.

Next week, I will be joined by Dr. Rashmi Schramm, family physician, meditation teacher and integrated coach, whose work invites us to slow down, tune in, and expand what we believe is possible. She's also joining us at the Physician Coaching Summit this fall, leading a full moon yoga nidra, [00:47:00] and sharing her powerful insights on expanded consciousness coaching. You'll wanna be in the room for this.

If this podcast resonates with you, the summit was made for you. It's where deep connection, real healing, and energizing inspiration come together and now is the best time to claim your spot. Ticket prices go up August 1st. Head to the physician coaching summit.com to join us.

As always, this podcast is for educational and inspirational purposes only, and is not intended as medical advice. I'm a physician, but not your physician.

Solving for Joy is produced by the extremely talented Kelsey Vaughn, with editing by Alyssa Wilkes, music by Denys Kyshchuk cook and Cover of Photography by Shelby Brakken. And so much appreciation as always, to my lovely Sue. And to you, our listeners, thanks for being here, showing up and letting Joy be part of your journey. We'll see you next time.